DUST Search - Cloaks for scouts only.

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

To replace a weapon, would have similarly difficult repercussions, however since the weapons are already on that menu it's more feasible but would still affect the weapon switching button on the controller (unless cloak being on = no weapons readied; readying weapon = cloak goes off). The easiest implementation would be an equipment slot item and it would then make any class have to consider three things in order to want to be able to use it: first the skills needed to fit and operate it; second the PG and CPU requirements (which should be high enough in CPU to make logi's not able to fit and and lots of other equipment); and third, it means sacrificing an equipment slot to do it.

Fitting in the light weapon slot is the most feasible way to do it, you've even covered ALL the reasons in your single paragraph here ^^

In order to activate the cloak you would have to select it as a weapon ... therefore you cannot run round with a weapon selected to decloak with sights aimed at someones head.
You say "it would then make any class have to consider three things" ... Heavies don't have equipment slots ... so there's one class eliminated from using it ... Why ?
You also say "should be high enough in CPU to make logi's not able to fit" ... most logis only have a light weapon slot and a grenade slot ... if they fitted the cloak in their light weapon slot they'd only have a grenade for offence ! ... how is this not appealing to anyone opposed to "killer bees" or "lologis" or "logi slayers" or whatever you want to call them ... they won't be able to use them. (quick Edit : UNLESS THEY'RE JUST LOGI'ING)
This way EVERYONE can fit it ... EVERYONE is heavily penalised for what is going to be a powerful tool ... and Scouts get to fit them at a massively reduced fitting cost which if done right would be enough that every other class had to lose their light weapon AND make sacrifices in equipment, grenades and/or ehp/regen whereas Scouts could fit them and have more cpu/pg left over than they would if they'd fitted a light weapon, so they could go full proto on everything else.

No matter where it goes it will still be damn difficult to fit for anything armour tanked since it would take cpu/pg extenders and they would have to sacrifice their tanking slots in order to fit it, whereas shield tankers won't.

Second Edit : Also in the light weapon slot similar mechanics could be implemented as are in Eve, where there is a delay between decloaking and your ability to fire weapons ... the same would go in DUST ... but Scouts could get a bonus to that too !


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Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 238	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:54:00 - [1] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Someone had to say it: cloaks should be scout only, for fucks sake we can't have one bloody thing to ourselves? Mark my words that this module will be abused heavily by non scout players, just watch it happen. Hell no!!!! Cloaks are not for small ships only in EVE, why the hell should they be that way in DUST? I would concede that maybe Scouts should be able to fit them the "easiest" and reap the most benefit for using one, but if I want to "gimp" my Heavy Commando Suit with a cloaking device and only have enough CPU left for two sidearms, then so be it!
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 238	Posted - 2013.12.16 17:59:00 - [2] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Active modul maybe? Active based upon what? Suits don't have capacitor. Timer? Maybe. Stamina drain? Maybe. Need to flesh this sort of idea out more to make it work. Also how do you activate it? If it's an equipment module slot, then instead of "equipping" it, you would do same action but instead it would activate/deactivate it.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 243	Posted - 2013.12.17 15:35:00 - [3] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: tell me, I know you started playing EvE, how many non-black ops combat ships fit cloaky? none... things that fit cloaking units: scanning ships haulers black ops stealth bombers T3 covert reconfiguration occasionally travel fit caps but that is rare applying the same to dust: things that fit cloaking units: scouts Bullshit! When cloaks were first introduced to EVE they were predominantly used by Battleships. They would sit at optimal ranges off gates while cloaked with a scout on the other side. Then when scout said something good was coming they would decloak and gank it. Additionally, I don't think any super carrier or titan pilot (as well as many carrier pilots) fly anywhere without a cloaking device either fitted or ready to be fit in their own cargo holds. Stop trying to make up stuff. The idea in this game is the devs give us "tools" and we the player get to determine how best to use them. There is no right or wrong. Kira Takizawa wrote: Last I checked Eve and Dust are two different games and should stay as such. Heavies got their guns and we get our cloaks. Then mediums suits can have whatever the hell they will be getting later. Last I checked the two game are indeed linked together and will only become more so in the future. So much for your "two games" theory. As for what each "suit gets", look at the bonuses applied to each. Every suit (that's not a militia or generic version) gets both a racial and a role related bonus. THAT is what the suit gets. Not some equipment, module, or weapon. So I repeat again, we get tools, we use tools, don't tell me how to use my tools. To the multiple people asking for additional equipment slots for the Scouts... No, that would take away from the role of the logistics suit. The Logistics suit is one of two suits in this game that has actually sacrificed anything to be able to do it's role (sacrificing a sidearm slot for 3 equipment slots). The other being the Heavy which sacrifices all equipment slots to be able to use a Heavy weapons. So if you start giving any other suit extra equipment slots, then why play a logi anymore (once they are balanced to not be slayers). To everyone trying to advocate for cloak to be anything other than equipment (low or high module, replace a weapon, built-in, whatever) the answer is "no". Why? Because to make it a module and still activate on the equipment menu would require a major revamp of the equipment interface as the location on it now are already assigned. To replace a weapon, would have similarly difficult repercussions, however since the weapons are already on that menu it's more feasible but would still affect the weapon switching button on the controller (unless cloak being on = no weapons readied; readying weapon = cloak goes off). The easiest implementation would be an equipment slot item and it would then make any class have to consider three things in order to want to be able to use it: first the skills needed to fit and operate it; second the PG and CPU requirements (which should be high enough in CPU to make logi's not able to fit and and lots of other equipment); and third, it means sacrificing an equipment slot to do it. Quil Evrything wrote: ?"Must"?? You dont get to just throw claims like that without justification. particularly as a CPM. You have no justification for your "must" claim. edit: You seem to be suffering from "I want it, but I dont wanna play scout!" syndrome. As such, you are demonstrating lousy aptitude to be a CPM No, he's saying MUST just for the same reason that I'm saying MUST. Because it's a sandbox. Because WE THE PLAYERS determine whether to fit it to a heavy or a scout suit. But the devs have to give us the flexibility to do either. Again, if I want to gimp my commando suit with a cloak that take away all more CPU and all I can fit afterwards is two sidearms, then so be it. It's my choice. Quil Evrything wrote: I agree with you. It makes no sense to be able to fit a forge gun on a scout. JUST LIKE IT MAKES NO SENSE TO BE ABLE TO FIT A CLOAK ON A HEAVY. Or anything other than a suit specifically designed to be easily cloaked. They have a word for that.. I think its a "scout". NO it doesn't make sense. Does it make sense that a SMALLER power source with a SMALLER CPU should be able to better support a CPU and power hungry cloaking device? Or does it make more sense that a Heavy with the needed CPU and PG already on it should be able to? The ONLY way it makes sense on the Scout is if, due to having less of a surface area to cover combined with special "bonuses" that are totally made up it is somehow able to. Sgt Buttscratch wrote: The cloak should be the bonus for hitting level 5 on scout dropsuit. not equipment. Would be pathetic to see a gallente logi rocking dmg mods, heavy armor, proto weaps, triage hives and be invisible.... Games is currently all over the ******* map, everyone is set to headless chicken mode, Scouts laugh more than anyone, logi's are whatever they want to be, assault runs scared and heavies fill in for the asault using light assault weapons. I could see a Tech Level II version of a Scout that gets to have a CPU bonus for fitting cloaking devices. And just like in EVE, the prerequisite to skilling into the Tech II version is usually level 5 in the Tech I version first. So if they make it a Tech II Scout option, you will get your wish. As for it being all over the map, I agree. CCP needs to concentrate on finishing the "verisimilitude" of the game SECOND (lag and bug-fixes are always first), and then new game content third. The main problem is that players in DUST that have never played EVE cannot readily see the how obvious the holes in this game are right now. They need to fill the holes pronto!
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 246	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:20:00 - [4] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Does it make sense that a SMALLER power source with a SMALLER CPU should be able to better support a CPU and power hungry cloaking device? Or does it make more sense that a Heavy with the needed CPU and PG already on it should be able to? The ONLY way it makes sense on the Scout is if, due to having less of a surface area to cover combined with special "bonuses" that are totally made up it is somehow able to. ! Yes, exactly. The suit is supposed to have special bonuses. Read the scout dropsuit description sometime. They're supposed to ALREADY HAVE IT! THE SUIT, specifically! The suit is described as, Quote: The Scout dropsuit is a lightweight suit optimized for enhanced mobility, multi-spectrum stealth ... This high-tech suit is coated in adaptive camouflage, a thin layer of bio-hermatic membranes interwoven with microscopic optical sensors that control millions of individual pigment ferro-crystals Clearly, from the game's very beginning, some kind of visual cloak was envisioned, and it was envisioned as being SCOUT-ONLY, because of specializations inherent in the dropsuit itself. Not even "light frame", but scout, specifically. No it says it's optimized for it, not that it's EXCLUSIVELY for it. And yes, cloak was ALWAYS envisioned for this game just like MTACs are too: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/MTAC?_ga=1.50677417.1640929137.1365175653 It just means that other suits can try to use it also, but will not be as effective to the point of not very functional, but barely able to do it. Just like in EVE where any ship can use a cloak, but only ships specifically designed for it can use the cloak effectively (ie. warping while maintaining cloak for instance or getting a CPU usage reduction to use them, or a shorter delay to target someone when uncloaking, etc.) They NEVER planned for them to be SCOUT ONLY. That is just a misconception that people keep bringing into this game from other lame ass shooters.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 253	Posted - 2013.12.18 15:42:00 - [5] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: To replace a weapon, would have similarly difficult repercussions, however since the weapons are already on that menu it's more feasible but would still affect the weapon switching button on the controller (unless cloak being on = no weapons readied; readying weapon = cloak goes off). The easiest implementation would be an equipment slot item and it would then make any class have to consider three things in order to want to be able to use it: first the skills needed to fit and operate it; second the PG and CPU requirements (which should be high enough in CPU to make logi's not able to fit and and lots of other equipment); and third, it means sacrificing an equipment slot to do it. Fitting in the light weapon slot is the most feasible way to do it, you've even covered ALL the reasons in your single paragraph here ^^ In order to activate the cloak you would have to select it as a weapon ... therefore you cannot run round with a weapon selected to decloak with sights aimed at someones head. You say "it would then make any class have to consider three things" ... Heavies don't have equipment slots ... so there's one class eliminated from using it ... Why ? You also say "should be high enough in CPU to make logi's not able to fit" ... most logis only have a light weapon slot and a grenade slot ... if they fitted the cloak in their light weapon slot they'd only have a grenade for offence ! ... how is this not appealing to anyone opposed to "killer bees" or "lologis" or "logi slayers" or whatever you want to call them ... they won't be able to use them. (quick Edit : UNLESS THEY'RE JUST LOGI'ING) This way EVERYONE can fit it ... EVERYONE is heavily penalised for what is going to be a powerful tool ... and Scouts get to fit them at a massively reduced fitting cost which if done right would be enough that every other class had to lose their light weapon AND make sacrifices in equipment, grenades and/or ehp/regen whereas Scouts could fit them and have more cpu/pg left over than they would if they'd fitted a light weapon, so they could go full proto on everything else. No matter where it goes it will still be damn difficult to fit for anything armour tanked since it would take cpu/pg extenders and they would have to sacrifice their tanking slots in order to fit it, whereas shield tankers won't. Second Edit : Also in the light weapon slot similar mechanics could be implemented as are in Eve, where there is a delay between decloaking and your ability to fire weapons ... the same would go in DUST ... but Scouts could get a bonus to that too ! Commando's (a Heavy class suite) do have equipment.